From our last meeting, we did a speed run through the entire architecture. It felt like PDS hosting would show immediate data sovereignty, but there were very few people who had open or paid signups.
- PDS for Jurisdictions: running a PDS in a particular country or jurisdiction
- PDS for Communities of Interest: Academic / university affiliated hosted was a special case
- PDS for App Devs: running a PDS along with a custom app to provide smooth sign up
We'll start by using Laurens' list of questions, please add your own below.
Please intro yourself if you haven't been before
- Ted Han (@knowtheory.net), ATProto Community Fund, former Mozilla product director. Distributed social media, healthy online communities, trust & safety, and journalism.
- Your Name goes here!
- [Eduardo] -->> @fudgemylyfe.bsky.social
- @laurenshof.online //fediversereport.com
- Rachel-Lee Nabors, London, covering the Agentic Web and building a client for navigating multiple social networks.
- Dan O'Leary
- Enrico
- Sebastian => Flashes
- Hilke => musician and coder
- Moderation and labeling could be shared effort, e.g. coop model for CARE (the relay).
- closed groups but avoiding net-split
- How do new endpoints get developed on a PDS implementation without fragmenting the ecosystem?
Organisation:
- What is the business model (for-profit, coop, something else)
- Partner with large hosts for "one-click installs," making it as easy as setting up WordPress?
- Jurisdiction
- How to get funding/whats the sales pitch for funding
- What does legal responsibility within the organisation look like
- Would this be a separate organisation from an org that runs a relay/appview/whatever
Community:
- What community is the target audience
- What's the size of the community that is targeted
Technical:
- What software is used for the PDS (rsky, bsky one, something else)
- what software is used to do manual moderation (ozone, build something for yourself)
- What does the admin structure looks like for upgrading and maintainance
Moderation:
- How is automated moderation handled, related to CSAM scanning (hive, roost, something else)
- How to deal with moderation for lexicons that Ozone does not handle (someone using ATFile to upload the bee movie)
- Structure for getting DMCA requests
- Who makes the guideline on how to deal with (political) takedown demands from governments
- Any experience with copyright issues (music, film,...)?
Currently PDS migration is only available through command line tools such as goat (manual) or bluesky-account-migrator (easiest).
It's controvertial whether a graphical option for non-technical people should exist before Bluesky allows migrations back to the Bluesky PDS, which these tools must at least warn of.
(can be shifted to dedicated meeting/group or wiki page)
Marc Weidenbaum is running Disquiet Junto, a music online community. After the latest developments he is looking for ways to host the community elsewhere. Currently tracks are posted on any platform and collected in a big Discourse thread. Marc also published a Soundcloud embedd in the forum thread as an embedd.
"SoundCloud isn’t necessary to participate in the Junto" but as the person who facilitates the community it has an impact where you aggregate the links.
I offered help to turn this playlist into one that collects tracks and presents them independently.
other ideas for atproto music use cases:
- Summarize musical atproto projects (teal.fm, comet, https://soundsky.cloud)
- Share (knowledge about) lexicons for musical use cases
- Collect junto submissions from a jetstream instance and serve the resulting collection as a playlist
- Request for a Winamp Skins Lexicon
- Today's topic PDS Hosting!
- Probably 3 categories of PDSes
- Roughly 3 categories
- Jurisdiction focused PDSes
- PDSes for communities of interest
- PDS for app devs
- Bundling PDSes with an app that you run gives you smooth signup and provides you a combined offering, and control your dependencies
- Bnewbold: high assurance as one option. No like, high SLA. If you're a professional, and your running an emergency account, or celebrity.
- Boris: we've kept out business models, but that's definitely one of them, esp with how relatively cheap on a per-user basis. 300k accounts per server right?
- Laurens
- Writes Fediverse report, open social web
- Coorganized Ahoy.eu
- Wrote up some of his notes, and thoughts.
- If you want to do PDS hosting as a service, what do you need to answer? One of the ways to move the WG forward, there'll be overlapping questions to answer, and some variation. Need to structure what we're talking about.
- Looking to refine the Qs not just answer Qs right now.
- [See questions above]
- It sounds like it's impossible to moderate PDSes through anything other than Ozone.
- Probably need more tools for automated scanning.
- How to handle DMCA requests.
- PDS hosting
- Questions about hosting
- Roscoe: as govs understanding evolve, will the start to demand more.
- BNewbold: It makes it hard to view PDS content from the browser. Having the App as the focal point to draw regulatory and enforcement attention.
- Probably taken down 1pds ever, and 1 or 2 accounts at the Relay, it was like a network abuse thing.
- Boris had assumed the PDS ban list was longer.
- BNewbold: Ozone we want to work, and it sort of works, but it doesn't fully. Right now the PDSAdmin tool or API are the main ways to moderate rn. You can take an entire account, you can't take down posts, it breaks to protocol in funny ways. only a subset of a repository can be passed around is weird. protocol could evolved perhaps, but the system gets all jammed up as of right now.
- Blobs can be taken down. Single blobs at a time.
- Roscoe: pretty sure Ozone moderation does seem like it works out of the box. Just set a couple env vars in the PDS and Ozone. Place that needs a lot of work, is distinctions between PDS moderation and AppView moderations. Like there's a single takedown.
- BNewbold: yeah this is a thing that is just going to take work. There's a proposal floating around.
- [Here's a task to work on together!]
- Joern: just from a compliance as a whole, from an EU level, that you can just hard & soft moderation in the AppViews. From the compliance POV you need to respond to requests from other EU jurisdictions.
- Will need the ability to hard delete content, and differentiate where you hosting data and where your viewers are.
- How might we as indie developers operate an indie stack without falling afoul of regulatory work
- Other Qs?
- Roscoe: what does it look like for a PDS to do development. How does a PDS host develop new endpoints and features w/o fracturing the PDS landscape.
- Brian: what is a PDS? What endpoints do you need to implement. Sidecar services? Designing a plugin system
- Need a PDS integration test suite!
- Graphical migration tools!